Work, Comedy & Making Ends Meet.

Just a quick post to let everyone know that yes, I am still alive, and haven't broken my neck by falling through some attic floor through to the next floor. Been through a few attics, basements, farm sites, etc since the last time I blogged.

 Been busy, though not picking as much as I would like.

Funny how the cash goes out twice as fast as it comes in!

Lots of flooding in this area, as well as south, west and east of here. A few rivers have been overflowing, and there also have been so much rain around that there has been lots of "overland flooding" as well. Makes picking tougher....backroads turn to mud, are washed away, sinkholes happen, and critters like moles decide that the road is the best high ground to head to and they start colonizing. 

You hit one of their hills at any speed and you have a recipe for disaster. Add to that having water right to the roadside, and filling ditches that are 10 feet (or more) deep...well, you can use your imagination.

I can still pick every day and find cool stuff, despite events like flooding, storms (rain or snow!), etc. Usually there are 2 things that can slow my picking activities a fair bit:

(1) Poor health (illness that keeps you bed bound...things like the flu, inner ear infections, or other things that make it unsafe to even walk)

(2) Lack of cash on hand.

Basically my health is ok at the moment. Cash is tight, though. Doing renovations to the house (we run a B&B also...www.buzzingbeebandb.com), plus been paying bills down, getting car repairs done (picking is tough on the vehicle!), etc.

Heck, filling up the tank with gas is a $100 touch these days!



Still managing to pick up some old stuff here and there. Even the jobs I have been doing on the side to make some extra cash can offer opportunities to get inventory.

Been cleaning up a scrap metal pile on a farmsite, for an associate of mine. He's a bit of a wheeler dealer, and he bought a package of farm properties, and he needs the scrap cleaned off the place before he resells that piece of the package he bought. Wants to have it looking clean & more appealing for potential buyers. 

I volunteered to do it, as he's related to a good friend of mine. It is more of a favour, as it is heavy work, moving literally tons of metal by hand. He might think I'm getting rich off the stuff, but that is far from the case. However, it allowed me a chance to pull out any interesting bits and pieces...many of which I see in many scrap piles that are sold at farm auctions, and the piles go for more than I want to pay for the few things in them. Having to talk to the scrap dealers who bought the piles later tends to be a pain, and sometimes impossible when you are trying to keep track of the other stuff you want to buy at the auction.  

So, from this pile I have gotten some cast iron farm implement wheels, as well as some other bits and pieces that have some resale value beyond scrap steel prices. 

Hot and heavy work, for sure.

I have been earning every cent I will gain, that is for certain...and every dime will have been hard earned at that. The blood and sweat expelled by my body has the profits wiped out already. Yes, I do REALLY mean blood!

Dangerous work, also... especially when at every square inch there are rusty & pointed harrow teeth, rusty, broken (and still sharp) swather blades , jagged old cultivator shovels that have been made razor thin and edge sharp by tilling sandy soil for eons, not to mention an intertwined conglomeration of knife edged sheets of tin, flesh scoring rusty barbed wire, rotting cans of who knows what...and to to that the fact the pile is intricately interwoven, with structures being interdependent...with no sense of structure or stability.

I climb and scour these sorts of piles when I am out picking, but usually only for easily accessible items. If I have to shift ten tons of metal in the blazing sun and risk slicing my jugular open to get at something, it better be a heck of a treasure!

I also pick up interesting bits and pieces of rusty metal for potential sculpture or other artistic/creative use...which I may use....someday.....if I ever get some spare time!

There were some cast iron water bowls for cattle:

I figured they could be used as rustic planters, bird baths, etc.

Also got some heavy chain links, which are actually from a dairy cow barn....part of the system used to mechanically clean the place. Yes, from a manure removal machine...(SHHHH, don't tell anyone!)

  They are long sterilized by mother nature, and their previous exposure to the, uh, ummm.... "elements" have given them a very cool patina:

What did the country antique dealer say to the city antique dealer?

That there ain't cow shit, that there's PATINA!

Well, with that I will leave you laughing, or groaning, whichever!



Pickers, UFOs, and the AVRO project

You may not be aware of this fact, but we pickers come across many UFOs.

UFOs are abundant in this trade, we see them all the time.

Dealing with UFO's takes much time, study, patience.

Like many things in this business, it takes research, research, and more research to figure out what we are dealing with, where the object has come from, it's history, composition, past ownership, etc.

Taking into consideration the UFOs color, what colors it has been, it's surface texture, coloration, markings, etc, you may be able to identify exactly where it is from, when it was made, how long it has traveled through time & space to get to the present day.

I also tend to have UFOs stashed away, in the barn, the basement, etc, for future study.

Hang on folks, our dog has been barking for a little bit, and I'm pretty sure I just heard a knock at the door...might be a customer, so I better go see what they want. This blog is not something that is paying the bills, so I better see if I can sell 'em some stuff....

*************

Ok, I'm back.

I gotta tell you, that was really weird.

I went downstairs, and looked out the window to the driveway, and there was a big, black van parked behind my van.

The dog was still barking away, still freaking out, so I put him behind the baby gate we have in the hallway, so he wouldn't jump on who ever was at the door.

I opened the door, and there were 2 guys standing there. I thought at first they were lost or something, then I figured maybe they were dealers. They were driving a big, black van, and you could likely haul tons of stuff in it, one of those Mercedes Sprinters; like Mike & Frank of American Pickers drive. But, this van was awfully clean, super shiny and must have been this years model, as it was pretty new. It also looked like it must have had every option on it, from black running boards, tinted windows, an extra CB antenna, a little tiny dish for satellite radio, and some other things. No company name on the vehicle, which isn't all that unusual.

They were definitely not pickers...or if they were, they were pseudo pickers. Wanna-be's with lots of money made in some other profession, or perhaps even inherited; they were born into it, or maybe even fraudulently obtained...who knows. Frankly, I don't know many true and honest pickers who have lots of money to throw around. Most pickers live hand to mouth, though sometimes they seem rich at times. It is feast or famine for many of us. It is not due to a lack of talent, experience, etc that cash is tight at times.  Sometimes we do have big bucks to throw around. It comes from flipping a few big dollar items, after turning over some merchandise at a show or flea market, after holding an auction, etc. Other times it is a bankroll we've pulled out of our overdraft, line of credit or an advance on a credit card. You need to spend money to make money, to go picking, to buy items to turn over, to make some money to pay bills. If you have some decent amounts of spare cash, sometimes you upgrade to a newer (but usually used) vehicle, or at least get the old one fixed up a bit. Other times you try to catch up a bit on bills, take the other half out for supper at some place classier than the local fast food joint, that sort of thing. A picker flipping bills off of a wad of cash is no indication of financial wealth. Same goes for a fairly new vehicle. Reliability is something a picker needs in a vehicle. Sometimes the ugliest, junkiest looking vehicle is the choice for a picker.....but, it still needs to be reliable, and that beater that just won't die (or can be fixed while on the road) is the way to go. 

So, the fancy vehicle meant little to me. However, these guys were way too slick looking. The fact they were wearing black suits and sunglasses confused me, also. I'm 100% positive there are no high end antiques show going on anywhere in the area...and if there is one, it would be somewhere that is easily at least a day's drive away, so wearing a suit for the drive there is rather, well, bizarre. I thought that maybe they were selling something, pushing some religion, etc, so I was also preparing myself to respond to those things.

Anyway, I asked what they wanted. They wanted to see in the barn, and asked what I had stashed away.

I asked what sort of thing they were looking for; what the dealt in, so I could better decide what sort of stuff I should show them, and so they would not waste my time nor me waste their's. They asked if I had seen anything unusual in the area. I said, well, yeah, I have gotten all sorts of unusual things, but I really needed something more specific than that. Then they asked if I had seen or found any saucers in the area.  Saucers? I replied that I really don't deal in much china, especially dinnerware, but if they wanted to leave some sort of "want list" I'd call them if I found anything that fit their interests.

They just turned their heads and looked at each other. The one guy with the helmet of perfectly coiffed hair seemed to raise an eyebrow, but that is about the only evidence he gave of any sort of emotion. The bald guy was still nearly robot like in his stature. The coiffed hair dude handed me a card and asked me to call them if I came across any saucers. They then both turned, ans started walking back towards their van.

They were in perfect step together, almost soldier like. They even opened the doors of the van at the same moment, stepped into the van and slid into their seats at the same time. The only time they seemed to be out of sync was when the bald dude who took the driver's seat stiffly looked into his side mirror when he was backing up to turn around to leave.

They know nothing about picking, for sure...the card has some weird logo and a phone number, and that is it. Useless...I tossed it in the trash...if you want to get calls from people again, make sure you are descriptive of what you are looking for. "I buy signs" doesn't cut it. You need a list, a page of pictures, key words, etc. Try: old signs, pre-1980, made of metal, tin, wood, etc. These guys' cards are useless. Definitely wanna-be's playing with daddy's money.

They were weird....but, I have seen much weirder things. Maybe they were a couple, who knows. But, then again, 2 people of either sex, spending lots of time on the road together tend to pick up each other's mannerisms sometimes, kind of like an old married couple. So, I can't assume they were gay or anything, either. Never want to assume such things in this business. Stereotypes are not a good thing to go by, and are rarely ever accurate, nor applicable, anyway. You can really tick people off when you use stereotypes to assess them, even get yourself in trouble. You can screw-up a deal really fast. Yeah, so the guy who owns that farm property seems really feminine, or the woman behind the counter seems pretty darn "butch." They may be the nicest folks you could meet; and the guy's wife is an absolute pin-up girl, a real bombshell, and the "butch" woman's husband is even more rugged than she is. Besides, so what if the guy has a boyfriend and the woman has a wife. Everyone is just "people."  You'll meet all sorts of people in this business, so get used to the fact that there are LOTS of differences between people in this world.

If they offend you or your beliefs, put that aside, do your deal for the cool stuff you found, and go on. Let people live their lives, if they are not physically hurting you, don't bother them.
Live and let live. People think us pickers, antiquers, junkers (etc) are bizarre, weird, strange, etc, too. They really have no reason to think that, they just do not understand our lifestyle, interests, etc. So what? That is their problem, not yours. If you have a problem with someone else's lifestyle, then perhaps you should be thinking about what people think of your lifestyle. Besides, we all live in glass houses to a point, so why bother throwing stones at all?

Ooops, got off on one of my tangents again, didn't I?

So, where were we?

AH, yes....

Unidentified Found Objects.

Ok, what is with all the ahh-ing, people? Hey, the guy in the tin foil hat just got up and left, and by that stunned look he had on his face, I don't think he is coming back....so if you happen to be standing, there is now a seat available.

Now, back to UFOs.

There can be lots of confusion with the assorted series of letters, what appear to be "words", abbreviations, logos, etc, that you see on things when you are doing research.

For example, when you see the letters "RCA", what do you think of?

I think of Nipper, radios, etc, as in the Radio Corporation of America, which many of you likely thought of, also.

BUT, I also think of the Canadian military, as in the Royal Canadian Artillery.

Did you think of anything different from those 2? Depending on your background, location of residence, knowledge, etc, you might have had another thought or 2 about what RCA means or is an abbreviation for.

So, were they any of these?

Royal College of Art
Royal Canadian Academy Of Art
Rialto Center for the Arts
Right Coronary Artery
Republique Centrafricaine
Rural Cellular Association
Radio Club Argentino
Radio Club of America
Radio Collectors of America
Radio Communications Agency
Rodeo Cowboys of America
Radiological Control Area

And of course the list goes on and on. This is a handy place for research on abbreviations and acronyms, by the way: http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/RCA

Plus, there are more that aren't on that list, some are defunct, super obscure, foreign language based, etc.

Have you heard of AVRO? The AV Roe company? AVRO Canada? The infamous ARROW project? How about the USAF sponsored flying saucer-esque aircraft dubbed the AVROCAR?

Well, I picked up a piece a few months ago, silver plated, with an AVRO logo on it. At the moment I saw it, I initially thought was an early logo for the company, or maybe from the British parent company.

Here is a close-up of the logo:

I looked it over, and found some markings on the interior edge of the handle, and when I saw the markings were not Canadian, British, nor American, I paused, and almost put it back on the shelf.

But, it was not even two bucks, and I'd kick myself if I found out it was from the AV Roe company's offices, or was some special presentation piece, etc. On the same thrift store shelf I found a couple sterling silver dishes for under $2 each, so it wasn't like I was going to loose money on the handful of items I had in my hands.

I pick up lots of silver plate that have assorted abbreviations, logos, etc stamped on them. By those logos, etc, I don't mean the maker's marks on the backs, I mean on the fronts, sides, etc. Marks that indicate they were the property of some business, like a lodge, club, hotel, railway, airline, etc, and sometimes they are family monograms, also, which are usually not a big deal, unless it was of a family that were historically important. Some such items are quite collectible...but, many are pretty much "homemade wind chime" materials.

If you know the meanings of many abbreviations, and have some knowledge of the companies, groups, fields, etc, that used them, you can get some really good deals, and profit handsomely from those purchases. There are "sleepers" sitting in the inventories of other dealers at antiques shows, flea markets, stores, etc.

Thrifting is a good way to learn, a cheap way to get an education in this business. Paying 25 cents for a silver plated piece of cutlery that has a logo on it, and finding out it is from a long gone railway is a good learning experience. Even if you only find out it is only from some little cafe in Europe, or it is just some unimportant family's monogram, and is of no real value, you have learned something that you will not forget...and it only cost you a quarter. Darn cheap education! And, once you get enough of those duds, you can make a wind chime...you might even be able to sell the wind chime for a hefty profit on your purchase prices and time! You got an education AND made money from it! You need to think way outside the box sometimes so you can make lemonade from those lemons.

So, back to AVRO. Well, I learned something. I'm now 99.9% sure it is not from AV Roe. As it turns out, AVRO is also an abbreviation for Algemene Vereniging Radio Omroep.

Yeah, I know, it looks like I just hit the keyboard with my fist after the letters A,V & O. It is actually Dutch for what is essentially "General Association of Radio Broadcasting" of the Netherlands.

So, considering the markings on the silver plate are of that part of the world, the odds are that it is related to that group somehow. Is it of value? Mmmm, well, maybe to someone out there. Certainly not of the kind of value of what it would have if it was a piece from the offices of the AV Roe company, or a piece presented by AV Roe to an important person. It did briefly cross my mind that it might have been made as a prop in the movie "THE ARROW" (Starring Dan Akroyd) which was filmed not far from Winnipeg (where the thrift shop was) so the props department was likely located in Winnipeg. However, due to the dark grey, almost black tarnish on the piece (that certainly was from far more than a dozen years of not being polished) and the fact that it was of Netherlands origin, and the AVRO radio group connection, odds are it was just a fluke it was sitting on that thrift store's shelf, and had nothing to do with the AV Roe company in any way.

I still had a sliver of optimism based hope, but was definitely already aware that the odds of it being from AV Roe were not in my favour. The clues that I recognized didn't really add up to "big money" for a historical piece. I took a chance and bought it anyway, mainly out of curiosity as to what else AVRO could actually stand for. I learned something, and it cost very little.

Someone else might have gotten far more excited about it. They may have even offered it for sale at an antiques show, with a big price tag, and a claim it was from that infamous firm that built the Arrow.

"I've found it in Canada, AVRO was in Canada, so what else could it be? It HAS to be from AV ROE!"  they might think.

They'd be wrong, though.  If I had seen it at an antiques show, say, priced for $100, I'd have been curious, looked it over, and have left it sitting there. I might have gotten the sellers phone number, and maybe have later gotten online, and double checked on the Net to see if AVRO Canada used that style logo somewhere along the line, or if the British parent company used that logo in the past.  I wouldn't have gotten too excited, though.
I know it is likely a candy dish from the offices of a radio broadcasting group in Denmark. Might still even have some value as a result of that connection. That will require some more research, and delving into websites, books, etc that are likely in Danish....which I neither speak nor read. I guess it will sit on my shelf for awhile longer! We do have friend who as a child came from Denmark, so I will quiz her to see if she can assist in finding out anything. Might cost me a bottle of wine or good Tequila, though!

Aside from the Danish marks on the silver plate, I also already have a bit of background and knowledge about AVRO Canada, the Arrow, the "Avro Car", etc.

That education cost me somewhat more than the AVRO dish, however. All it will cost you is some time to read about it.  But, I'll leave that story for my next blog posting!

So, Ya Wanna De a Dealer, eh?

(IMPORTANT! Please note that the title above is to be said with a Jack Nicholson accent. Thank-you for your co-operation!)

I have been getting lots of questions about items from Facebook friends....people who just happen to have "stuff" and some who are starting to "pick", getting their feet wet, so to speak. You do get your feet wet in this business, at times...and I do mean literally...stepping in basements with a half-foot of water in your brand new work boots...christening them.....but, we're not talking about that....not in this blog, anyway.

 I don't mind giving "free advice," to a point.

Of course, I can not afford to be doing lots of "free appraisals," either.  Went over that whole "time is money" issue in a blog entry awhile back, as you may recall.

I do spend a little too much time yakking with folks about their finds; dispensing advice, assessing items, giving tips, etc.  I don't really make any money doing that. Haven't figured out how to, either. Should I pop a "Donation" button on the blog? On Facebook? With every answer I give and/or post I do?

Sure, I could charge appraisal fees and all that, but that is not quite what I feel I need to do....I just can't figure out some other way to make money from these "free" services. 

The doing "appraisals" for money thing is why I have attempted to sign up as an "expert" on that site I have been nattering and bitching about. I guess we'll see how it pans out. I am not interested in doing appraisals of estates, items, and collections for people's insurance policies and the like. That would mean I have to take a "course" on "appraising." I do not have money or time for that. Plus, odds are I'd end up spending far more time on research than I should, and end up loosing money.

I do know that if I get many more people asking questions about items, I am going to have to start charging...just to cut down on the numbers...as it does take a fair bit of my time....and it simply doesn't pay the bills. The wife also gets annoyed with me spending the additional time online...which I also do understand.

Plus, I am a nice guy, so I will try to answer people's inquiries. What can I say?

If some TV producer wanted to pay me to dispense free advice I'd do it. Maybe something to pursue.

Oh, yeah, then the advice isn't going out really for "free" now, is it?

By now I bet you are thinking:

"What the heck does this babble have to do with the title he has on this post????"

I'm getting there, hang on...

So, the question that I posed in the title: Should you become an antique dealer?

Or, to rephrase it: Should I become a picker?

Answer: Depends.

Ah, no, not the adult diapers....

It takes up LOTS of time...no, no, not adult diapers...focus here people, focus!

I don't want to burst anybody's bubble, dash their dreams, etc.

However, you need to be realistic when you are thinking about stepping full time into this business.

Do you really want to spend 10, 12, 14, 16, or even 18 hours a day working?

'Cause that is what it takes. I know some of you may notice I am on "Facebook" quite a bit from Nov to March. Part of the reason is that it is WINTER here during those months, and COLD, so I am inside working...researching, posting auctions, sales listings, etc, much of the time. I have inventory that needs to be researched, sorted, cleaned, etc. I happen to have a Facebook page open a fair bit, just to communicate with some of the dealers I have "friended", doing some networking, and to promote sales listings, etc. Not really there to chat....or, rather, that is usually not my intent. (But, yes, it happens, ok?!?)

So, I am online lots in the winter. Have tons of stuff to do...am getting a website up soon (finally), and need to make $ also. I currently have no fully operating store front, really. I do consign some items at a friend's storefront in a nearby town, but the sales of the vintage items at the place is not exactly "hopping" this time of year, either. It is a small town...I know how slow it got in the winter at my shops in the city, so I do not expect much in a small town.

You folks who live in year 'round warm southern climes don't know how good you have it, really. Your retail sales season is so much longer, overall. I realize things like holidays and such might slow your sales, but nothing can kill your business like icy highways, closed highways, severe weather warnings, snowstorms, temperatures with windchills that freeze exposed skin in 2 minutes....shall I go on?  

You may now thank the god of your choice for where you live...

Really, though, I like it in Manitoba. It is beautiful, and the winter is bearable, even enjoyable, most of the time.  No worries about hurricanes, killer bees (they don't survive the cold winters!) and a long list of other scary/annoying things. We do have black widow spiders, though I think I have seen maybe one or two in over 20 years of picking through all sorts of places where they could potentially dwell.

And did I mention summer is GREAT?  I think we maybe appreciate it more, with the extreme temperatures we experience.

So, anyway, I see I went off on one of those tangents again.....

The thing is, it does depend on many things.

You becoming a full time antiques dealer/picker, I mean. Just a reminder of what we are taking about...in case you forgot during the side trip I took you on, or your mind is still stuck on Depends diapers (you weirdo!)

Yes, yes....I know, you'll be wearing Depends by the time I finish this blog...ha, ha, ha.

Did I mention I am psychic picker? 

No not really....I'd have picked the winning lottery numbers by now.....

Ok, you can quit groaning now...If YOU get to tell a joke, I get to tell a joke!

Yeah, I sort of did both of them....

AHEM, *cough* *cough* Ok, so there is LOTS of time spent doing STUFF of all sorts as a dealer/picker.  So, first question is, do you want to spend time with your family? 

No family? Just a "better half"? Take note that spouses will resent the time you are spending away from them. Even if they are involved in the business with you....you take off to an auction, and they end up stuck working the storefront, packing stuff for shipping the next day from your online auction sales, etc, etc...

It can take a toll on your personal life. Have lots of friends? But they aren't into "old stuff" like yourself?

Oh oh....

Much of a dealer's/picker's social life revolves around the business. Antiques shows, flea markets, going for lunch with other dealers after doing garage sales since 6:00AM, yakking while at another dealer's stores, going for beers after work to talk about the annoying pseudo-customer you had, coffee after that weekly evening auction, etc, etc...suddenly you realize that the majority of your friends are in the business in some capacity.

Now, if you are a "part timer", then this may not be the case. But, if you want to make your living doing this, especially in the financial climate we are in now, you are in for LONG work days. You will HAVE to socialize during "work." Oh, yes, you can work at this "full time" if you already have a bankroll and maybe sustain a separate social life...that is not difficult. But, after that bankroll runs out, and trust me, it will...you'll be struggling along with the rest of us.

In all my "chatting" with other full time dealers/pickers, I do hear how tough things are for 90% of the antiques dealing population. Oh, when I say "antiques", I mean antiques AND collectibles.

Seems the "I paid my staff/employee(s) and there was nothing left for me" is pretty common right now among those who require employees....and Kraft Dinner seems to be on the dealer/picker supper menu more often than it used to be.

I realize that all the "Junk TV" (and I mean that in a complimentary way, 'cause I love junk!) like American Pickers, Storage Wars, Pawn Stars, Auction Kings, Pawn Queens, Antiques Roadshow (American, Canadian and the original British one),etc, etc, etc all make this business look "fun" and even "glamorous" in some ways.

But, remember, they are TELEVISION SHOWS. Yes, it is "reality" TV, but so is "Survivor"...and I don't find that show all that "realistic." (I am sure there are those who will oppose me on that statement...)

 You don't see the boring times, the stressful times, the "I can't pay my bills this month" times, the "I'm sick as a dog and can't go picking and flip stuff for a couple weeks, so we will have to eat expired bargain brand cheese and macaroni for a month" times, the trips to the hospital for tetanus shots, stitches, etc.

So, when I got an email from a Facebook friend posing a question, I answered him with truth and honesty.
His initial inquiry is as follows (in italics):

So, Mr. Fedora, I need your opinion as an antique dealer. I may have an opportunity to go into the antique business full time but I'm concerned about the long term income potential. If things work out for me, I'll have a decent secondary income for a while, so even if it takes a little while to get my income up as a dealer, I won't starve.


But, my question is what can I expect to make once I have a year or two under my belt? Doing what you love is great, but I still need to pay the bills. I've got a wife who doesn't work and 3 kids, so it's all up to me.

What do you think? Do I stand a chance or should I keep a regular job and just continue antiquing on the side?

Thanks in advance for your help!

* * *

In the long winded fashion I tend to use, I answered thus (also in Italics):

Bare truth? Don't do it....at least not right now. Market in general is really soft at the moment. Antiques & collectibles aren't a big money maker when there is a downturn in the economy. Plus, the fact of the matter is, it is a TOUGH living.....I still have trouble supporting myself and my wife...if we had kids to support...I don't know where we'd be. My step-daughter is 20, and lives with her dad, who has basically been supporting her for the past 6 years...he's been in the biz a long time, also, and does make a living...but he is also not supporting a wife, and my stepdaughter is not exactly a big financial drain on him, anyway. She buys 2nd hand in most things, and is a bit of an artist type....I suspect she'll be a pretty decent actress.

Her dad is past retirement age, and busts his butt to make a go of the business, still.

That said, Manitoba is one of the toughest markets to make a go of it, so that is likely why we are having a rough ride, despite my experience & expertise. I have seen lots of antiques stores close. As it is/was, many of the dealers I know have/had other things to keep their heads above water...auctioneering, refinishing furniture, good pensions, spouses working at high paying jobs, just do it on the side of their regular job or business, etc, etc....I am one of the few that actually make their living at this, in this province...I can count the dealers who make their full living in this province (at just buying and selling antiques) on one hand...and the count is under 5. Many antique shop owners are retired folks with pensions, investments, etc...and they are "playing", or it is someone with a high paying job, and opens on the weekends. They don't need to sell stuff to put food on the table.

Your best bet for a more "local" take on it is to talk to people into the business in your area...see if it viable where you live, and if so, do try to supplement a brick and mortar store's sales with online sales of smaller items that don't sell in your area, but that you are able to buy at reasonable prices and sell well online.


I doubt you will make money within a couple years, frankly, if you were to open, and all did go well. Will take awhile. Not a get rich quick business...you have to love it, or don't do it. If you don't absolutely love old stuff, or you do love old stuff, but have a hard time parting with what you find, don't get into it as a business.


Also, it can be real hard on relationships. If your wife doesn't like old stuff...well, I have seen lots of couples (of all ages and backgrounds) break up because one didn't like the stuff and the other preferred to be surrounded by the stuff.

My best advice would be to keep the job that provides a steady income, and just keep antiquing on the side. Then, if you make some extra $ at it, you can take the family somewhere, or buy some new "toy", go out for suppers, or take the wife on a second honeymoon, etc. If you don't make any extra, well, it is entertainment that has (hopefully) paid for itself.

Don't risk your family's security.

I was "single" (sometimes seeing someone) up until 3 years ago, so it was only "me" I had to worry about supporting....And, financial stress also can destroy relationships quickly. Been engaged twice before....one 7 year relationship ended in a great part due to financial stress. So, if you and the wife are happy & secure financially, stick with that formula....it is working!


This biz is not all fun and games, though I realize TV makes it look like that. Mike and Frank are making far more $ off of licensing, media deals, merchandise, etc than they ever would just in the antiques biz. I'm also looking at other ways to parlay my experiences, my expertise, and interests into $, beyond buying and selling stuff. As it is, I had the same concept that Mike has brought to market, but it was 10 years ago. Due to "life", I didn't pursue it that heavy...and the "reality TV" market wasn't ready for it, anyway. Mike's timing and persistence paid off. Hopefully it helps the business in general. He's doing well now...but, I understand/heard that prior to the show, his income was around the $40,000 - $50,000 mark...and that would be due to a frugal picker style living, also. Plus, I'd expect he had some other $ banked or invested from previous business activities.


Anyway, hope I didn't bore you to death! Will likely blog about this subject, also....I know the thought/desire/dream is on many people's minds.

* * *

His response (yes, in italics again...how is your neck doing?)

Man, I really appreciate the advice. You have basically confirmed my gut instinct. And, no, I wasn't bored at all. That's exactly the kind of opinion I was seeking and I knew you could really elaborate on all the highs and lows.

Fortunately, my wife loves old stuff as well, so that usually doesn't present a problem. Her problem is patience. She has none. So, if I buy something, she expects to turn it around within a week or so and sometimes that just doesn't happen, as you well know. She would want to make good money right off the bat and I just don't think that's realistic, especially after getting your take on things.

I think I'll stick to the real job with this on the side because I don't want to make my family live a barebones lifestyle. If it were just me, that would be different. But, I can't do that to them.

Thank you very much for laying it out. I knew I could count on you for the straight dope. You really should blog on this because I know lots of people think it all glitz and glamour. Keep up the good work and look me up next time your in (his state).

* * *

Well, sounds like I might get a beer out of this bit of advice! The appreciation he expresses added to that makes it a good payment in my books!

WARNING: This object is not as old as it appears!

Don't you wish it was that easy? All old looking items that are not all that old being marked as such?

Forget it...will never happen...SO, we need to LEARN what things are NEW and what is OLD...and HOW old....

How do you learn this?

Well, in a variety of ways. RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH...on a variety of topics is one of the ways to branch your knowledge out a bit. Lots of info online on how to detect old things from new thing, modern fakes, forgeries, etc.  There are a fair number of books on the subject out there, too.

AND don't forget to triple check that information you are reading. As an example, the use of a black light to find repairs & fake items can assist you in eliminating some fakes & repaired items...but don't think it is an all out "Sure thing" to determine age or the condition of those items. Use it as a tool, but not the perfect one answer.  You see, I know a fellow who repairs porcelains...he is very good, his repairs are tough to spot....and, he has figured out how to fool a black light, too. However, he adds a hidden "signature" to all his repairs, so if the item turns up at an auction, sale, estate, etc it can be determined if it is one of his repairs.

I note this as an example only, on how you really need to know FOR YOURSELF how to avoid fakes, forgeries and those "old looking" things that just are not that old.  You really can't trust all the reference books out there, either.

Why?

Well, I present to you as an example, (and certainly not the sole and only book with this issue) the "ENCYCLOPEDIA OF PORCELAIN ENAMEL ADVERTISING" by Michael Bruner, copyright 1994.

There is a Coca-Cola sign in the book, shown on the back cover, and the top and middle pictures on page 68.  It is said to date from the mid 1890s...and even has a "94" as the date code on one corner.
Worthpoint.com  has an eBay auction listed of that same sign, with a selling price of $9300, sold not that long ago (11/14/2006).

Funny, it was determined this item was a fantasy item (IE: never originally made)
 long before that....but, I digress...

Surprise, surprise, on Worthpoint.com we also find the identical sign...with the true story given...a "Replica sign".... "Only 2 were made by a graphic artist."...."one of two made" which sold 11/15/2007...for $199.

My first thought when bought the book back in 1995, and I saw the sign, was that it looked "wrong" for some reason...I couldn't put a finger on it at the time, but my gut said that something was just off.  (You also sometimes need to go with your gut feeling in this business, but that is yet another blog post!)

If you look at advertising from that period, and study the types of graphics used in the ads by Coca-Cola featuring that slogan, you will see they just don't jive with what is on this sign. But, in 1994, I had over 10 years less experience than I have now, so who was I to judge?

But, obviously the "experts" were fooled.  The back looks "right", the thickness & depth of the porcelain seems right for the period, the name of the company who made it is correct for the period. The date code is even "plausible"....but I wonder if it stands for 1994!  And, frankly, if it popped up at an auction of items that were of that period, all supposedly from the same source, say, being some old store or hotel's basement, that might have even tipped the scales for me to decide it was "right"...but, I'd have begun to wonder once I got looking at all the other period advertising using that slogan...and the graphics really not being similar at all....might have been an expensive lesson, too.

Dates shown on things don't always mean a whole heck of a lot. Take maker's marks on various things...the date as part of the mark may just give the date the company was founded (and the fact it is on the shelf in Wal Mart should be another tip-off...!)

Sometimes the number is not a date at all...it is a model number, or mold number, decorator number or some one's old high school locker combination....

BUT, on some things a prominent date should really say something to you...

"Is it really that old?"

Many repros, fantasy items an outright fakes have prominent dates on them.   I saw an "1800s" wooden sign being "shown off" on a chat thread on a particular antiques website...the thread was started to essentially promote the eBay auction of the sign.  No big deal, we all do that/have done that...more exposure the better. That's legit, I'd even encourage it, especially with the lack of  and declining collector traffic on eBay these days.

Problem is, they represented the sign as being from the period of the date on the sign....from the 1870s.

I collect old advertising, and am particularly fond of old wooden signs, so I have had the opportunity to handle (and own) several of them...and be the person to have the, umm, "pleasure" to have dirt & dust dumped in my face during their removal from some of their long term "storage" locations....which, if you have been following my blog, you will have already read about one.

So, when the dealer posted the sign on this public forum, it invited comments.

 Mine was "sorry, this is a modern decorator piece." I also went on to disclose and describe why it was of recent manufacture, and not old. It used lots of old, recycled wood, so it appeared to have some age...problem was, the wood was of various ages, and various sources.

My statements were followed up by other dealers' comments, all who agreed, and even pointed out OTHER reasons why there was no way it was old....one even describing how a particular type of board used in it was not even manufactured until 30 years after the date painted on the sign.

Even after the various somments were posted, the sign remained on eBay, represented as 100% original 1800s.

Sold for just over $600.

Hmm...As a decorator piece, it MIGHT have been worth $250....$350 if you really, really loved it.

As a piece of modern "folk art" done in an old style,  signed by a prominent artist, ok, maybe $600....But this was represented as an old, authentic piece of early Americana

I contacted the "editor" of the website regarding this piece and the poster of it, and questioned if they really should be allowing such things, and the reputation this sort of continued actions could give such a site in its infancy.

The editor wrote back and asked for a "link" to the thread....which I thought was rather odd...

I went back to find the thread to supply her with a link...and it was GONE.

Hmmm...that bothered me, and made little sense, until I dug a little deeper...

The poster of the sign and the eBay auction was ALSO the OWNER OF THAT WEBSITE.

Ahhhh-haaa!

This little episode has made me question the reputation of this particular dealer(s)...and it bothers me that they are running a website that is gaining significant ground in the antiques community.  It is a license to rip folks off. I know many eBay sellers are paranoid that eBay is ripping us off (yeah, I know, whole different discussion there), reading/filtering our internal emails, whatever...But, if this person/these people will blatantly censor their screw-ups how can you be sure they are not messing around with internal stuff as well? 

Actually, what I am most concerned about is that is was not a "screw-up" that went unnoticed and then got covered up by the embarrassed party, but a blatant misrepresentation of a fake item as real, meant to deceive the unaware purchaser/bidder.

If you are reputable, you should be willing to "eat" your screw-ups.  Don't pass a fake you bought as "real" on to someone else as "real" after you have found out that it is a fake. And, if it IS found to be a fake AFTER you have sold it, stand behind your merchandise, and willing take it back, with apologies. Otherwise, you are risking your reputation and future sales. That really rare item you find next time and want to sell for big money is automatically suspect....tainted by your unwillingness to accept the fact you screwed up on something else previously

Just learn from it and go on. Maybe keep the piece as a reminder...even to compare it to other similar items to gauge their authenticity. Yes, I admit it, I have tossed some of my screw-ups into auctions...I think most dealers do that at one time or another. But, I also don't represent them as what they were represented as to me. They are what they are, "Caveat Emptor", as you likely know with most auctions. But, there are many items I just stuck away in a box, destroyed, etc...the odd one that involved larger sums of money I returned to the seller, who feigned ignorance, or was genuinely unaware that the item was not what they said it was. I will strive to not get rid of those screw-ups anymore to the potentially unaware!   Actually, what I strive for is to not be deceived by those items in the first place.....but, you learn everyday in this business...the education never stops.

However, for you, my loyal readers (ok, that is enough hoity-toity-ness...) maybe by reading this blog you won't have to learn as much via the hard (and potentially expensive) ways.

Sometimes you may come across "fakes" that are not "fakes" per-se...they are things like "museum models"....items to represent the real thing, which is either unavailable for display, too valuable to be shown/handled by the public, on loan elsewhere, etc, etc.

Others are created for deception for monetary reward, or personal satisfaction...

A friend of mine (who passed away some years ago) dealt in transportation collectibles. There was one particular "collector" in the field who proclaimed himself an "expert" who knew everything there was to know. He was even writing a book.

WARNING: Arrogance can get you in trouble.

There was a particular drinking glass type with a thick bottom that a Canadian railway used. Their logo was etched on the glass.

Oddly enough, a gas bar at the time was giving away a strikingly similar glass set.

Other than being too clear (older glass used in such glassware tends to be slightly grey, or otherwise ever so slightly tinted due to ingredients used at the time), it had one other difference....a 1/4" size bubble in the middle of the bottom. The originals had a thick base without any encapsulated center bubble.

My friend was tired of this fellow's constant acts of supposed "superiority" to him and others in the collecting community.

He got a set of the gas station promotional glasses together, and had them etched with the identical logo.

This fellow bought them, swearing up and down they were the real thing...as far as I know my friend did not represent them as real, he sold them as "unsure", but, then again, I wasn't present at the time of the sale.

They appeared pictured in the book he wrote AS THE REAL DEAL.

My advice to you is to avoid being full of yourself...that dangerous arrogance...there is always someone out there who will take advantage of that...it is a weakness, not a strength. Stay humble.

I do not condone what my friend has did, but he was still a good friend, and would have given the shirt off his back for you....but, he hated arrogant people. He sold tons of authentic items, don't get me wrong, but there were items he sold that were "restored" and "finished"...and one early Baird-type advertising clock that was a real, old clock...but had a repro paper Orange Crush or was it (Coca-Cola?) dial, sold to a very, very knowledgeable picker,who really should have known better....though, given the constantly eroding reputation of this particular picker, it is possible he knew full well it was not authentic, but appreciated the fact that it was a well done "fake" and had someone he knew he could stick with it for a substantial profit....My friend sold it for what it was worth as a non-advertising version of the clock, by the way.  He had created it just to see if he could create an authentic looking piece, and it was originally "not for sale".....but, someone who he likely felt deserved to be taken down a notch stepped into his store.

No, that is not my way of looking at things. Karma is a hell of a thing. I use the word loosely, but the way, not in the literal Indian religion sense. My view is more simplified down to "if you do good things, good things will happen...you do bad things and bad things will happen." I don't dabble in any particular religion,  nor is it my claim that any religion is better than any other.....just to make myself clear. I'm a picker; not a Priest, Pastor,  Rabbi, Sahib, etc, etc.  

I pray to the "junk gods!"

 Maybe it came back to bite my friend in the butt. His departure form this world was a way too early, and excruciatingly painful & tortuous exit. 

My ethics are much more rigid, and I did not approve of this actions, nor his repairs/restorations of items and their later sale as being in original condition.  But, his heart was good, and pure in intentions towards those he cared about.  I have been treated poorly in the past by others who claimed to be more honest & forthright than they actually are/were.  People have flaws, but they can be purposely overlooked, and overshadowed by other good traits that overshadow those flaws.

Hmm..went off on bit of a philosophic tangent there, didn't I?

Back to the important stuff...old junk!

So, there are things out there that will deceive you. Some are made intentionally to deceive, other items are made to look old as an pleasing aesthetic, and other items have just aged or been changed in some way by natural causes (etc) that make them appear to be something that they are not.

Check this old coin out:

Looks kind of like those encrusted Roman coins you see all over the Internet...or a metal detector discovered freshly dug coin, doesn't it?

Check out the date on the other side...definitely not Roman!

Here is a complete view of the other side:

Neat, eh?

So, 1896, and being that it is 2010 now, this coin is 114 years old, right?

Wrong.

Sure looks old, doesn't it?

Well, it IS old...but only about 35 years old. Yes, it dates from the early 1970s.

I happened to recognize what it was right away when I found it....you see, this is part of a set of coins made for the public to collect. They were given away individually with gas purchases in the 1970s by Shell gas stations in Canada.

Charles Tupper was the Canadian Prime Minister...in, yes, 1896....the shortest serving Prime Minister in Canadian history...serving from May 1st, 1896 to July 8th, 1896.

Lots of these (and others with older and newer dates) around, and one of those things that are constantly brought in to weary Canadian coin dealers and Canadian antiques dealers by the general public.

Value?

Well, most coin dealers have them in their 3 for a buck bins...so that will give you an idea of their "value"....or, rather, lack of value.

So, how come mine looks SO old?

No, I didn't age it.

I found it, just like it is, under a carpet in an old house I was cleaning out....but a house that was built in the 1950s, not 1800s....perhaps if it was in an older house, I might have had to study it for more than a second to assure myself it was not that old. And, had I been unfamiliar with these coins, I might have even been deceived for awhile longer. But, the age of the house, and the location I found the coin in adds to the reluctance to believe the date on the piece represented the age of the coin.

Amazing what years of moisture, carpet leached chemicals, carpet cleaners, and who-knows-what-else can do to a cheaply made piece of bric-a-brac! These were made of a plated zinc, thus deteriorate easily in a variety of conditions.

So, this sort of thing pops up, and you have to be careful with judging an item strictly by wear, corrosion, etc.  Same goes for LACK of wear on an item.  Dealers often turn items over, and this is not always to look for certain marks, but to see if their is "appropriate" age related wear on the bottom. 

Take for example a glass candy jar of the type used in a store, or a Planter's Peanut jar. There should be scuffs/scratches/wear on the points on the bottom where it rubs on the counter. Being moved and shoved around for 50, 75, 100 years tends to wear things down, glass included. The item might be outrageously in good condition for something so heavily used that you suspect it to be a repro, but when you turn it over and it is heavily worn on the bottom you may well, and likely correctly, assume it is authentic.

But, this is NOT the only reason you should be deciding it is old and not a repro.

You should also include the glass's hue being correct for the period, the thickness or thinness of the glass, etc, etc, etc.  What if the piece was never used, and had sat on a basement shelf for 75 years, and was only recently well washed and put on that thrift store shelf, or on that table for in the auction? 

So, wear isn't always the determining factor.

The more knowledge you have behind you the better. Though, experience is always the best teacher.

Familiarizing yourself with items issued for celebratory reasons is something to do, also.

Take, for example, a coin I saw advertised at a local auction. It was a 1670 coin with a ship on it.

Hmmm...

I immediately had my doubts it was actually from 1670, and if it was, could well be a common foreign coin...kind of like those common Roman-era bronze coins you can buy by the hand full quite cheaply.

I went to the auction preview in the morning and looked at it up close, and quickly decided that it was indeed old.....but only as old as I was. Yes, that is correct, I wasn't born yesterday. I was born in 1970.

And so was the coin.

I should get a picture of the coin. I know who bought it, for a sum nearing $300.  He was new to the business, and paid a premium dollar figure for that lesson. Maybe will add it later, we'll see if he still has it when I stop by his shop. 

You see, his was pretty beat up, had a dark "patina"....

Here is what the coin I am speaking of looks like when it hasn't been beat up.  

Yes, just click on the sentence...then page down on that page to a red rectangle...which is the case the coin came in when given to employees of the Hudson's Bay Company on the 300th anniversary of the company....in 1970.

Note how the 9&6 are intertwined, essentially one in the same....

And how easy it would be to smack the coin right on the tail of the "9" and obliterate it the fact it exists.....add some more marks, then bury it in some acidic soil for a year or more, and VOILA, an "antique" coin....

Whether this was a purposely done to deceive in that particular case, or just something someone found as it was, like my "1896" coin, and incorrectly assumed was actually quite old, is unknown.

I didn't attend the auction, as there wasn't really enough there to justify me staying all day. I left some bids, and went on with my day. But, I did find out who bought the coin awhile later. And, yes, I had pointed out to the auctioneer, before the sale, that it was not from 1670. He sold it as an "old coin". There is that caveat emptor, again. I'm sure auctioneers get told things by people viewing items at their sales all the time; things that may or may not be correct...he just has to do his job.

So, you need to use a combination of the various things you know to determine age and authenticity of items. You can score a fantastic piece that everyone else has passed up as a "repro" or "fake" if you have the knowledge to back you up....and, you can avoid getting stung by using that same knowledge. You will make use of your knowledge for the latter more often than the former, as there are more suspect items out there than gems, but don't dismiss those items entirely that seem "too good." Be suspicious, sure, but don't make a crack judgement, unless there is that glaringly obvious "issue" you identify right off that screams FAKE or REPRO. Besides, handling those fakes & repros assists you in making a more educated decision next time...just don't BUY the fake/repro....unless, of course, you want it as reference or comparison and the price is "right".

Yeah, the beads on that native artifact may be 100% authentic fur trade era trade beads from the 1700s/1800s...but the leather hasn't been tanned in the fashion of the period....then you notice the thread isnt; "period".

 And, if you happen to know that those antique beads still do turn up in unused batches, plus are easily obtained from far less valuable AFRICAN native made artifacts of the same period, you might be clued in to look for more clues as to the item's age. Everything should add up.  Sometimes there is information out there not generally available to the public. Though it may be tough to determine origin, thus the item is assumed to be authentically "Indian made" or something like that.  In Manitoba, as an example, there was a community of squatters, located near a larger community. These squatters had access to willow...and the population, made of both native Canadians, mixed-blood and Caucasian (and possibly even other races), made aboriginal type willow baskets...for use and for sale in the larger center. It is essentially impossible to tell the difference whose hands made them, however. This particular detail doesn't really make them any less valuable, nor thought of as potentially "fakes". Though around that area, many people are aware of that tid-bit of history, and thus us local dealers marking them as "authentic aboriginal willow baskets" may get a slight roll of the eyes from the odd person reading the tags...and, they are found more commonly around that particular area than elsewhere.

Another thing to be careful of is the "it was my grandmothers" story.

Certainly, it well COULD have been owned by their grandmother...but, grandmothers shop at Wal Mart, too.

They quite likely even are not lying, and they could well believe the item is old, and some folks may not even be convinced in a million years of anything other than how old they think/were told by granny how old the object is, 'cause granny/mom/dad wouldn't have lied to them....

And, just because someone is old, doesn't mean they are honest....so, even if you are buying it FROM that sweet, little ol' granny, make sure you know what you are buying. Plus, people's memories do change, and things do get mixed up in the telling of stories...that ancestor's "Civil War" used  rifle may actually be great-grand dad's hunting rifle. They aren't trying to purposely deceive you, so tread carefully, don't accuse, but just be aware of what you are buying, and if you are offering an "old hunting rifle" price and not a Civil War relic price, explain why you believe it is not Civil War period...having some irrefutable reference material on hand helps. But, disproving family stories can be touchy with some people, so it might be worth while to you to let sleeping dogs lie, and pass on making an offer at all.'

++++

So, there are a few more things I have learned....and am freely passing on to you....which will hopefully save you/make you some money sometime.

Which brings me to another subject....to be covered in a future blog!